Instead of a blog focusing on the incessant rumor mongering and speculation surrounding the Full Tilt, GBT, and PokerStars drama, I thought I would share an extensive Twitter conversation that happened last Friday. It pushed the buttons of a few respected female poker players and brings up interesting perspectives on women in poker.

On April 18th, a young woman posted in Marketplace on 2+2 a staking package for the WSOP Ladies Event and Venetian summer series. In here main presentation, she listed the usual information: About me, package details, misc. and final thoughts. A day later, in her second follow-up comment she listed a link, with no explanation, that said "Pics of me". In the Imgur pic album are nine different playful head shots of the young woman with one where she is playing poker.


I believe it started with this tweet:

@Katie_Dozier - Good for women in poker: @RealKidPoker 's VLog: Bad for WiP = girl including pics to get WSOP stake

@killahmcgillah - yes, i saw 2+2 thread w/the girl using pics to get backing $. yes, i think she's pathetic. and yes, i think it'll probably work. #sillyboys

@killahmcgillah - http://bit.ly/JZvqM2 # barf

@katie75013 - it worked! She sold out! Guys are such suckers. No male with those online stats would have sold out.

@katie75013 - how did she sell out that fast then, with those stats? No man would have in today's MP...

@killahmcgillah - lol of course the 2+2 skank sold out almost immediately. that settles it, i'm posting $100k worth of events at 2.5% MU & posting n00dz.

@katie75013 - Ya thinking about making my next MP package similar to the Sunday nsfw threads in mttc.

Discussing what bothered them about her approach...

@katie75013 - well, she's a losing player online, so pics are the way to do it I guess!!

@JenShahade - Nothing wrong w. pointing out looks can add to EV, but contextualizing pix would b better

@katie75013 - a poker pic would be ok

@Katie_Dozier - The "Yes I am a girl" intro also bothered me, but not nearly as much as the pic post. :(


@Katie_Dozier - Stakes should be based on results and trustworthiness imo. Sponsorships are different.

@JenShahade - Large penalties for being a woman later in life so why not capitalize on it when young? Lack of subtly tho.

@katie75013 - She simply realized she needed an edge to sell, since her online stats are not good. Lol at how fast it sold, too!

@katie75013 - Yes, we live in a world where looks > ability. But when u capitalize on that, things don't change.

@katie75013 - I think it matters, but to use it as your edge/reason to get backing is just disgusting.

@Katie_Dozier - I def see that side,+ if she'd said "So you can recognize when we meet up" or any other preface wouldn't have bothered me as much

@thegroupie play XXXX on merge a lot, def a solid reg. Also it's not like she posted ics in the OP. Her markup is a bit ridic tho...

@Katie_Dozier - If a guy posted flirty pics in a staking thread with no words about why, people would call him out. Should be the same for a girl

@killahmcgillah - it's just irritating that this girl couldn't let her stats speak for themselves, that's all.

@killahmcgillah - guys, i'm not "outraged" by this girl's actions, i'm disappointed. it validates the idea that women aren't worthy unless they're fuckable.

@katie75013 - she's a slight winner on merge. 11% roi. 76k winnings w/ 7k profit over 2800 mtts.

@thegroupie - Think all players should work their edge. If hot chick can sell action for some soft events at 1.3, more power to her (Not saying I'd do it)

@Katie_Dozier - If a guy posted flirty pics in a staking thread with no words about why, people would call him out. Should be the same for a girl

@JenShahade - could be dangerous for HER to post on mostly-male forum, where she'll be, when & meet up

@Katie_Dozier - Not hating, saying that if a guy posted pics in staking thread w/no comment, would be silly.

@katie75013 - We all understand how it works. No one in this convo is jealous or unattractive, imo. It's the principle.

@Katie_Dozier - Fair enough, she did sell and I wish her the best (as well as the confidence to sell stakes just on results/trustworthiness).

@Katie_Dozier - ironic that sometimes women do less to level the gender divide in poker than men do :(

The few established male poker pros who responded had a different perspective...

@stealthmunk - Can't believe my twitter feed is real right now. A girl posted a picture of her face while selling a mp thread and people are outraged?

@realcharder30 - agree that her 3rd post was a little off, one pic in OP would have been fine IMO

@PwrPoker - I think she just exploited an edge, which is what our game is about, right? Def set her apart in staking forum. Not validating it, but not outraged either

@marksrink - staking is no different than anything....selling yourself for something in return....true?

@realandrewteng - she doesn't have any body pics. rather disappointing. i also don't have sharkscope right now so can even tell if the buy is good.

@mickeydp - are you saying looks (esp for females) don't factor into your ev in a tournament? Thats absurd!

@mickeydp - idk I guess I just have a hard time believing that it influences peoples decision to buy all that much

@Mike McDonald - I'm hardly outraged, if anything she just understands how this world works better than most

It was apparent that whether through jest, sarcasm or criticism, this woman using pics of herself to help sell her summer poker tournament package pushed the buttons of a number of regular female players. They seemed to take a principled stand against any woman using her looks to help attract investors; sponsorship being a different matter altogether. The men, not surprisingly, weren't particularly perturbed and they saw it as just another way to gain some type of edge.

I understand and respect the different issues women face in poker. But I think it's naive and unrealistic that women expect the same standards in some areas, and yet use their feminine ways to advantage in other areas. I don't know of a single young female pro who hasn't used her looks or femininity to advantage at some point in play or self-promotion.

The cynic and skeptic in me might assert that the women sounded bitter and jealous of her success in selling her package in a few days. The sympathetic supporter of women poker players sees their uphill battle to be recognized on their playing ability alone. On poker forums, I have occasionally commented to members who bemoaned the lack of female involvement that they often create a hostile and borderline misogynistic environment despite their outward desire to want women to participate.

Xuan Liu, a respected young female poker pro, recently shared her perspective in a CardPlayer interview "I think it's very shallow when someone states that the game is easier for females. There's a different set of obstacles involved. There may be more opportunities, but it's also harder to gain respect from your peers. If an established male player misplays a hand, it will often be attributed to him having an off-day or some other form of variance. If a female makes a mistake, many will automatically regard the error as a permanent reflection of her ability. At the same time, just because you're a girl does not mean there is no hard work involved, that you don't have to take the traditional channels to become a world-class player. If you want to be playing in the highest level tournaments in the world, you can't just expect batting eyelashes to get you by. I have a lot of respect for females who understand this. At the same time, I believe utilising the element of attraction can also be a great tool to have in one's arsenal."

For women, it's a matter of wanting respect for who they are and not what they look like. I get that, but at the same time I suspect every woman involved in poker has used that same superficial appearance to their advantage. Even the most elevated of female players is cognizant of their appearance and choice of dress and its potential impact.

When I was actively interviewing poker personalities, 9 of the 51 people I interviewed were women (Danielle Andersen, Sara Underwood, Laurence Grondin, Thuy Doan, Kimberly Lansing, Maria Mayrink, Vanessa Peng, Chetna Joshi, and Jennifear). While each interview was respectful and professional, I was well aware that the majority of my readers were male and would be disproportionately drawn to their interviews because they were attractive women as well.

Last year, I started the largest picture collection of women in poker. Over 360 women are featured, representing all ages. Interestingly, it has attracted over 109k views to a forum that isn't known for poker or that is updated regularly. It was a celebration of the beauty of women who share a passion for playing or working in poker. Yes, there are pictures of women in bikinis amongst the many respectful pictures. But the pictures were from women who were knowingly using their looks to help promote the game or themselves. I'm not sure we'll ever get to a stage of human evolution where the male-female attraction dynamic will completely disappear, so until then I'm okay with a woman using whatever she has to her advantage. I respect the desire of women in poker to lessen the effect of the gender divide, but it's not as simple as it appears.