Still 0-for-lifetime in live MTTs....

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Stinger885's Blog

March 28 2011

Still 0-for-lifetime in live MTTs....

Unfortunately the high roller tourney didn't go my way at all. I just couldn't get anything going and made a few questionable moves. I have a big tendency to try to force the action when I'm colddecked in MTTs and really have to stop that. I tightened up once I got short (30bb) but just made some poor plays before that imo. While they are fresh in my head, I'm going to type out the relevant hands here for review.

Before the hands, I have to give the backstory for one guy at my table. He is the self-proclaimed "Wolfman" and talked constantly about how he was going to eat players and take their chips and kept reminding the table how hungry he was. He also played about 90% of his hands early and about 50% at 300/600/100 (level 3), the level I busted at.

Without further ado....

Hand 1 - First hand of the entire tourney. Young guy to my right raises UTG+1 to 600 (100/200 blinds), I flat with JJ, Wolfman (no reads at the time) calls too on the button. Flop 864 2 diamonds, young guy bets 1100, I call, Wolf calls too. Turn 3d, young guy checks, I bet 3200, both call. River Qo, young guy checks, I tank check as well, Wolf bets 6700, young guy tank folds, I tank fold too. With later reads I think I call on the end, but I'm happy with my fold at the time. Young guy later said he folded 2 pair and Wolf claimed to have AK which I'd say there's a 60% chance or so is true. I think I like the preflop flat given position, flop flat is standard I think, turn and river are more debatable imo. I thought about bombing the river as a bluff too as I think 2 pair and sets can find a fold there some. Not really sure.

Hand 2 - UTG (diff young guy w/ UB patch) raise to 500, Wolf call, Markus Lehmann calls, I call in BB with 76o. Flop JT7, UTG bets 1100, Wolf calls, Markus folds, I make it 4200, UTG folds, Wolf calls. Turn 6, I bet 7700, Wolf folds. I was betting just about any turn and just felt like they were both weak, I think I like this line. I had a pretty tight image at the time (I think!).

Hand 3 - I raise 64cc in MP to 1100 (blinds went up to 2/4), Wolf calls all others fold. Flop 932 1 club, I bet 1700, he minraises to 3400, I call. Turn 8o, I check, he bets 1600, I want to just fold but talk myself into a call. River Ko, I lead out 5200, he snaps with TT and when I muck he yells "Don't bluff the wolf!" lol. My play is pretty indefensible here.

Hand 4 - Young guy to my right (who I have now talked to and know is a tourney pro) raises to 900, I make it 3k with Jd3d in the CO, Wolf flats in the BB, young guy folds. Flop K74ssh, he c/c 3500. Turn 9h, I check behind, river K we check down and he shows AQo. Pretty sure he'd fold that on the turn but I don't think it's a good barrel spot vs his range especially with all the draws out that can give him even more of an excuse to call light.

Hand 5 - Young Lithuanian pro 2 to my right raises to 1100, I make it 3500 with AQcc, he makes it 8700, I call (~40k effective). Flop T55cc, he checks, I bet 6200, he folds. Like my line here, would have bet many other flops too.

Hand 6 - Wolf raise UTG, MP call, I call SB with J7hh (he was opening 50%ish remember). Flop AxTh2h, Wolf bets 3400 which is near pot, I c/r to 9300, he calls. Turn Qo, I bet 12.7k, he folds saying he had A9. This is pretty questionable, I don't hate it because his opening range is so wide and his big flop bet seemed weak, as he had made a big bet as a bluff once earlier. Still, certainly better to valuebetting a guy like this to death than bluffing him.

Hand 7 - Wolf raises EP to 1600 (blinds 300/600), young American guy calls SB, I flat 63dd in BB. Flop 753 1 diamond, check, I bet 3200, Wolf folds, SB calls. turn Ks putting 2 spades out, he c/c 8200. River 2s, he checks, I bet 16.2k, he shoves for 25 more and I fold fast. I don't like this one at all, I hadn't shown anything down all day basically and by this time I knew the young guy was pretty good and smart and I think he trapped me good here with a set or so.

Hand 8 - I raise to 1300 with 44 and 30k, Wolf calls SB, Markus makes it 4400 in BB, we both call. Flop 862 checks around, turn 5s putting 2 spades out, Markus bets 6800, I call, Wolf folds. River 2s, Markus bets 10.8k, I fold. I was calling preflop for set value and had odds to draw on the turn assuming my set and straight outs were all live, so I don't dislike my line here. Gotta hit next time....

Hand 9 - After a few reshoves that went uncontested (1 all in, 1 3bet of a small raise to 3500 with a 19k stack in position) I have 22k. Wolf raises UTG (I think his range is like 40-50% here) to 1600, I jam 66 in SB, he calls with JJ, wins, and then yells a bunch about how the wolf took down his prey and ate it for lunch. I thought that was hilarious actually, although I'm sure when done to the wrong person he might get in a fight.

All feedback welcomed especially praise of the Wolfman or telling me how much I suck at live MTTs. I think I'm gonna go skiing tomorrow and the next day with Brian Townsend at St. Anton in Austria, then I'm playing WPT Bratislava main 1b on Thursday.

gl all,
Brian

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3286 Views | Comments(12)

March 28,2011

Tighten up and.... NEVER BLUFF THE WOLF!!! I always find these situations funny in live poker. And you are right about this guy doing this to the wrong person and eventually pissing somebody off.

whodey0544

March 28,2011

this blog will be fun for you to read after you win a WSOP bracelet this summer!

gambler2k4

March 28,2011

prefacing all comments by saying it's a high roller event and i'm a tourney donk who plays $10 freezeouts. my thoughts.

first, i hope i play w/ wolfman this summer.

hand 1 - did you have Jd? i think i c/c turn and prob river.

hand 2 - why i don't play high roller events, raising bottom pair seems bad to me (were you bluffing?), but nice turn.

hand 3 - i either fold to his min raise or re-raise him and hate life when he calls/re-raises. weird turn size bet from him.

hand 4 - you're crazy! i know all the kids are three betting trash these days but it seems so unnecesssary. sounds like these people were gonna pay you off if/when you made hands, i prob barrel turn since i'm repping mad strength.

hand 7 - i sometimes bet gutters, but w/ bottom pair (and backdoor fd!) in 3 way pot i prob c/c and re-eval on turn, small chance you get free card.

lol at deigning to give my thoughts on your hands, just my two cents. have fun skiing!

lana

March 28,2011

was the wolfman, dwyte pilgrim?

http://img153.imageshack.us/i/wolfuo.jpg/

Shrewww

March 29,2011

This is a Circus, where do they find these monkeys?

_johnnydrama_

March 29,2011

This is a Circus, where do they find these monkeys?

_johnnydrama_

March 29,2011

Hand 2: Fold preflop. Bet sizing is definitely kinda weak by them so I don't hate checkraising and barreling but at the same time if I were actually playing the hand I' usually just check fold

Hand 3: Looks pretty bad. I feel like you'll get looked up super light here

Hand 4:When did antes come into play? Even with antes I rarely 3bet hands this week especially against another competent player and with someone like wolf still behind. I play it the same postflop

Hand 5: What positions were you? I'm typically push-folding most spots like this preflop with only 100BB, but that said I don't think I'm excellent at playing 4bet pots with deep stacks.

Hand 6: How deep were you/how big did he open? If its 2/4/50 8 handed, he'd have needed to make it 1300 for the pot to be 3400. I'd call if I have more than say 40 times the size of his open. Postflop is tough to judge without knowing your stack size but I'm assuming its fine

Hand 7: Weird hand, I fold preflop even against someone like wolf, but postflop looks good.

Hand 8: Fold preflop, you have nowhere near set value.

Lets make assumptions and say that 1) He has JJ+
2) Wolfman will always call preflop
3) He will jam every flop and Wolfman will always fold

When you call and fold you have 25.6k

When you call the jam you will get in a pot for 65k with with 81.5 equity(just stoved this.. 44 vs JJ+ on a 4xxxx board) meaning 53k will be your average stack.

So calling you lose 3100 when you don't hit a set and win 24.3 when you hit.

This equates to like a .3BB profit on average, but obviously these assumptions are HUUUUUGELY favorable for you. Wolfman will sometimes out flop you, you will very frequently not stack him, wolfman can fold pre meaning you stand to win less etc etc. This is probably one of the most common mistakes I see people making in tournies and this is a hugely losing call. Even if effective stacks are 50k against a player whose at all competent, folding here is correct

Hand 9: A few points regarding the generaly mentality with 25-40BB stacks against loose openers with small pairs.
1) Each shove you make lowers the value of future jams
2) While Wolfman is prob a dumbass who thinks big bet = big hand, every observant player at the table will catch on quickly, so BB could start calling 99 in spots like this when he might have folded TT if you 3bet to 4800 or something
3) You are probably a lot better than all of these guys
4) There is always value in being at the table
5) I'm not specifically saying you played this hand bad, but I think you will likely be presented with situations in which while non-standard, jamming would be HUGELY more profitable than the next best alternative and each slightly +EV jam you make hurts that future equity. I'm mostly just saying that between seeing this jam and another jam within the same level with 30-40BB stacks, you're probably either a) missing opportunities to 3bet-fold or b) have an image so loose that you should just play everything for value and just get paid off

There need to be more guys like wolfman in the poker world. They used to piss me off, but now I find they just make things really entertaining

Timex

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Comment	Hand 2: Fold preflop. Bet sizing is definitely kinda weak by them so I don't hate checkraising and barreling but at the same time if I were actually playing the hand I' usually just check fold Hand 3: Looks pretty bad. I feel like you'll get looked up super light here Hand 4:When did antes come into play? Even with antes I rarely 3bet hands this week especially against another competent player and with someone like wolf still behind. I play it the same postflop Hand 5: What positions were you? I'm typically push-folding most spots like this preflop with only 100BB, but that said I don't think I'm excellent at playing 4bet pots with deep stacks. Hand 6: How deep were you/how big did he open? If its 2/4/50 8 handed, he'd have needed to make it 1300 for the pot to be 3400. I'd call if I have more than say 40 times the size of his open. Postflop is tough to judge without knowing your stack size but I'm assuming its fine Hand 7: Weird hand, I fold preflop even against someone like wolf, but postflop looks good. Hand 8: Fold preflop, you have nowhere near set value. Lets make assumptions and say that 1) He has JJ+ 2) Wolfman will always call preflop 3) He will jam every flop and Wolfman will always fold When you call and fold you have 25.6k When you call the jam you will get in a pot for 65k with with 81.5 equity(just stoved this.. 44 vs JJ+ on a 4xxxx board) meaning 53k will be your average stack. So calling you lose 3100 when you don't hit a set and win 24.3 when you hit. This equates to like a .3BB profit on average, but obviously these assumptions are HUUUUUGELY favorable for you. Wolfman will sometimes out flop you, you will very frequently not stack him, wolfman can fold pre meaning you stand to win less etc etc. This is probably one of the most common mistakes I see people making in tournies and this is a hugely losing call. Even if effective stacks are 50k against a player whose at all competent, folding here is correct Hand 9: A few points regarding the generaly mentality with 25-40BB stacks against loose openers with small pairs. 1) Each shove you make lowers the value of future jams 2) While Wolfman is prob a dumbass who thinks big bet = big hand, every observant player at the table will catch on quickly, so BB could start calling 99 in spots like this when he might have folded TT if you 3bet to 4800 or something 3) You are probably a lot better than all of these guys 4) There is always value in being at the table 5) I'm not specifically saying you played this hand bad, but I think you will likely be presented with situations in which while non-standard, jamming would be HUGELY more profitable than the next best alternative and each slightly +EV jam you make hurts that future equity. I'm mostly just saying that between seeing this jam and another jam within the same level with 30-40BB stacks, you're probably either a) missing opportunities to 3bet-fold or b) have an image so loose that you should just play everything for value and just get paid off There need to be more guys like wolfman in the poker world. They used to piss me off, but now I find they just make things really entertaining

March 29,2011

Shrewww,

Not him haha, he was a scruffy 50ish white dude.

Stinger885

March 29,2011

Timex,

Much thanks for the reply, I really appreciate you taking the time to type all that out. After some reflection and chatting with others it is increasingly obvious how my impatience just killed me, there was really no reason to be involved in several of those hands.

As for specifics,

Hand 2 - agreed

Hand 3 - much agreed, should probably just fold preflop, if not do you fold flop or turn?

Hand 4 - No antes til level 4, just the last couple hands. Yeah I should just be folding here.

Hand 5 - He was MP I was CO I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty happy with my line here, we had about 40k effective, don't see any need to shove and I think calling slows down his bluffs frequently.

Hand 6 - No antes, a raise to 1100 and a call, pot was like 3700ish on the flop. Stacks were roughly 50k effective here.

Hand 7 - I kind of feel like I should just check the turn here and shut down unless I improve, and yeah folding preflop is probably the best idea heh

Hand 8 - Thanks for the analysis. I definitely underestimate the chance of getting oversetted or otherwise drawn out on when I hit. I think wolf calling 100% is a reasonable assumption but me doubling up when I hit is not, I agree with your analysis.

Hand 9 - Might be marginally +EV in a vacuum but I really hate it after further reflection. I still have plenty of chips and in a cash game this is ok but in a tourney it's not a worthwhile risk to take given my edge on the field imo. Great points about future fold equity too, that wasn't something I was thinking about and is a very valid point.

Thanks again man

Stinger885

March 29,2011

Also, just realized that guy on my right was Mike Sowers who just shipped FTP 1k for almost 500k, if you're reading this congrats dude!

Stinger885

March 29,2011

Don't forget his second stack that went into the $1k so he FT'd two stacks, 1st and 9th.

Hokulea

March 29,2011

3) I find these spots pretty dumb, my default against pretty much anyone is to fold unless you're really deep and the opponent is likely to stack off
5)Ya, by no means am I saying calling is bad, just that my typical approach is to not get myself into too many situations where I'm not the aggressor in 4bet pots.
6)Ah, didn't see MP called, ya I play it the same. I still consider folding preflop if the other opponent in the hand is any good.

One general point regarding my advice on blind defence: I don't think I'm the best at identifying and acting on profitable situations to take advantage of OOP. A hand like hand 2 may be a profitable defend if you are capable of correctly identifying lots of boards where you can make profitable plays without getting to showdown, but I don't think I'm too great at that and as a result don't play too many marginal hands OOP

Timex

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