Transcript of CR Featured Chat with verneer

CardRunners Pro verneer participated in the first CardRunners Featured Pro Chat on September 8, 2010.  He answered questions ranging from bankroll management, his approach to SSNL, moving up, and more.  Below is the transcript for the chat.

 

ddudin01 says to  (17:49:30):

So i just started grinding micros and want to know the best way to build a bank roll fast?

verneer says (17:49:50):

this might sound lame

but there is no sure-fire way to build a bankroll fast

that's up to the cards

but

playing solid TAG style at the micros, not tilting, and makign sure you put in good volume will build your bankrool

 

reyzorxxx says to  (17:50:49):

Veneer, Do you play live cash games? What stakes? What stakes and/or size 6max/FR should I be grinding online to improve my ability to crush 2-5 to 5-10NL Live?

verneer says (17:51:15):

I played some 1/2 in Vegas but found myself too impatient

going from 24 tabling and playing 1200+ hands per hour

to 10-20 hands per hour

was an adjustment that tilted me

I would have to spend a month at the vegas tables to really chill out and win

 

ddudin01 says to  (17:51:33):

Yeah I get that but I have sort term and long term goals and  at this level is it just ABC poker and tons of hand ect ??

verneer says (17:52:27):

dd - yeah - solid ABC poker, don't tilt, and put in the volume

also, constantly work on your game

I think less than 4 tables is optimal for growth and more (6+) once you are comfortable is best for growing your bankroll

so if you are very familiar at a limit, your focus should be on just making $$

unless you want to move up

then reduce tables, and really focus on growth

 

The_Crocop says to  (17:53:47):

what is ur winrate at NL25

verneer says (17:54:17):

6.55 BB/100 over 25K hands according to PTR

which doesn't mean much IMO

 

Akolades says to  (17:54:50):

I wanted to know if you could go into detail about your note taking system. I've had a lot of trouble with knowing what to write down and in what way, so that its actually useful. I find its the thing that most successful pros do, but do very differently

verneer says (17:55:00):

I suck at taking notes

but

have really been working on it recently

basically

anything that stands out, I try to make a note about

 

teamwillow says to  (17:55:38):

verneer, if a player is dedicated enough, if they work hard enough what bb/100 should they realistically be obtaining at 10NL?

verneer says (17:56:01):

3-4 BB/100 is totally doable IMO

for many tables

over the long term

but

1.5-2 is still a solid foundation

 

zschindler says to  (17:56:33):

verneer as it should be split playing time / study the game? 50/50?

verneer says (17:56:43):

when you frist move up

it should be like 60/40 study/play

then, as you become more familiar with a certain limit, get more reads, etc

that should slowly start shifting

until it's like 75/25 play/study

 

The_Crocop says to  (17:57:13):

what do you think are the biggest mistakes players make at NL25 Nl50 and NL100?

verneer says (17:57:42):

biggest mistakes - they have no plan for a hand

and at some point postflop

they are a deer in headlights

and it's like "what do I do and how did I get here?"

 

BJK-QUARESMA says to  (17:58:46):

Verneer, how many Buy ins would u recommend for 6max micro limits?

verneer says (17:59:04):

depends on what your goals are

some people keep 5-10

some keep 100

your focus should be on what you want to achieve at that limit

and then pick the # appropriately

So like ... if you want to move up

keep less

if you want to never deposit again

keep tons

 

kidkev24 says to  (18:00:29):

Hello Verneer.  I usually play limit holdem fullring. would you recommend starting with 6max or full ring micro nlhe? or is there a big difference?

verneer says (18:00:51):

I think there is a big difference, yes

I would start with FR NLHE for you

you are more familiar with the format

and in general

the ranges are more defined and the games are less aggressive @ FR

so the transition should be smoother

 

KingJulien says to  (18:01:21):

Hey man, in your moving up challenge how many buyins did u have before u took a shot at 50nl? Did you buy in full for 100bbs? What changes did u have to make to your game?

verneer says (18:01:36):

I didn't buy in full I don't think

it was one of my ways of taking shots early to move up aggressively

so like

if I have $2000 for 50NL

if I buy in full, I have 40 BIs

but if I buy in for $35, I now have 57 BIs

and if most fish buy in for ~$35 at those tables, it's what I want anyhow

I think I tended to move up ~ 15 BI's

but it was stressful

 

The_Crocop says to  (18:03:06):

VErneer what Limit are u currently playing and  when do u want to move up?

verneer says (18:03:17):

I'm playing 100NL/200NL and I have no desire to move up

these limits accomplish my $$ goals that I have and keep my stress low

 

Przytula says to  (18:03:34):

Does buying in for less change your play at all? Like less small pocket pairs, more pushing, etc.

verneer says (18:03:42):

yes, it changes

less implied odds, more pushing thin edges

I actually think more players would benefit for playing 75BB poker early on

 

The_Crocop says to  (18:04:12):

what was ur biggest downswing ever?

verneer says (18:04:24):

biggest DS ... probably 15-20 BIs

if you see my graphs

I tend not to swing much

 

teamwillow says to  (18:04:41):

is the next limit 400NL, and do you feel it's a lot harder to beat? or is there too much variance for ur roll to handle

verneer says (18:05:03):

yeah 400NL is the next limit

I just have no real desire to play it ... not sure what else to say

like

there MIGHT be more $$ to be made in the long run

but the level of stress and adjusting it would take for me to feel comfortable

outweighs my desire to go through that

 

phatsuit says to  (18:06:38):

Do you feel that checkraises are under used at the lower limits?

verneer says (18:06:47):

vs. regs, yes

and most players taht do it

don't do it with the right cards

like

they'll c/r a 358 board with 22 instead of KQ

I'm actually working on some articles about c/r

which will be much more informative than w/e I can type in chat today

 

Akolades says to  (18:07:51):

and why is that better with KQ?

verneer says (18:07:55):

well ...

if you get called by a one-pair type hand

or some draw

22 is drawing to 2 outs

KQ is drawing to what might be 6

a better example would be to c/r TJ on a 873 board

where you have a nut draw

+ overs

 

nomo4life says to  (18:09:37):

I had a request to hear your 'poker story'

verneer says (18:11:26):

http://tinyurl.com/25k2wkt

high points

online donk

found CardRunners

immersed myself completely

had success

$50

--> ATM

--> you know

and since I was always into education

I started making videos and they proved to be helpful

and I got a lot of satisfcation about helping beginning players

so I got hired by CR

and these days

I spend quite a bit of time on CR stuff

writing, producing

helping others with their series

 

zschindler says to  (18:16:14):

do you ever play live tournaments? what were they? some great results?

verneer says (18:16:36):

Not raelly ... I've maybe played in less than 20 my whole life

 

The_Crocop says to  (18:16:59):

How do u do Table selection ( What tools do u use and which tables do u prefer)?

verneer says (18:17:07):

well .. @ rush you can't

but

in general

I open a up a table and look around at the different colors I gave people

if they are all green (TAG), blue (NIT), orange (SLAG), or red (LAG), I leave

verneer says (18:18:11):

if there are some unknows that have 40+ bb's I count how many

verneer says (18:18:16):

and whether I have positions

verneer says (18:18:19):

and go from there

 

reyzorxxx says to  (18:18:01):

How long are you sessions? How many hands do you play daily? / How many quality hands should a player play daily to get a good learning volume of hands in?

verneer says (18:18:36):

My game startes to fade after about 90 minutes

so I take a break after taht

hands ... it depends

when I'm in grind mode, maybe 3K/day?

not sure as far as # of hands to recommend

 

fanofhockey23 says to  (18:19:23):

what seemed to be your moment when it all seemed to click?

verneer says (18:19:43):

I don't think it's fully clicked yet :)

 

The_Crocop says to  (18:19:52):

How many hands do u need to know if u are any good at a Limit/game?

verneer says (18:20:04):

100K is a good start, but it's more than that for sure

 

teamwillow says to  (18:20:12):

verneer- who's videos do u find most helpful in ur game

verneer says (18:20:28):

I really like nutedawg and rask88

I have great respect for both and they are very articulate

although Rask is Canadian

 

The_Crocop says to  (18:22:46):

Do u play other games too (like PLO or MTTs) or exclusively cashgame?

verneer says (18:22:56):

pretty much cash games these days

 

The_Crocop says to  (18:23:18):

Doesnt it get boring just playing one type of game?

verneer says (18:23:50):

not if you want to find ways to take your game to the next level

but it has before, yes

but I mix it up between limits

and add some HU

and watch some videos

and by then

I'm all excited to play again

 

fanofhockey23 says to  (18:24:45):

can you really apply nutedawg's logic at 50nl and below?

verneer says (18:24:50):

what's his logic?

 

fanofhockey23 says to  (18:25:29):

the metta games he uses

double and triple barrelling

verneer says (18:25:46):

if you get a read on someone, sure

like

if you call IP with AJo

and flop comes A57

they bet and you call

turn is a T, they bet and you ... maybe call

river is a 3 and they shove

most people fold top pair there

so if most regs decide to only show down two pair + in those spots

you should barrel them

 

BJK-QUARESMA says to  (18:26:06):

Do u have another Job besides playing poker?

verneer says (18:27:14):

BJK - I do a lot of stuff for CR

which supplements my poker playing income to a level that suits me

 

reyzorxxx says to  (18:27:00):

Do you play HU Cash? Do you believe learning HU Cash can improve your overall poker developement the fastest?

verneer says (18:27:45):

I do play HU cash

HU cash is very profitable for me

but

many people get tilted easy

and it sucks to not be able to get games or have someone hit and run you after 3-5 hands

so I mostly play FR these days

 

The_Crocop says to  (18:28:42):

Do u quit a session instantly when on tilt or do u continue to play even when on tilt?

verneer says (18:28:52):

I usually tell myself

"if I lose this hand I'm done"

and if I lose it, I quit

verneer says (18:29:34):

if you look at my graph from Sept 6th

430K hands

you will see where I didn't quit when I tilted

 

reyzorxxx says to  (18:29:17):

How many Buy-ins you suggest for HU Cash?

verneer says (18:30:10):

BI's for HU cash ...

it depends

I know that Cpar1

used to play with 4 cause he had tilt issues

and that way he would only lose 4 in one day

and he would 1- table

and he's a baller these days

so when he lost, he would wait 24 hours to deposit

and then be in a better mindset

so ... do what plays into your strengths

 

fanofhockey23 says to  (18:31:34):

what do you do to get ready for a session?

verneer says (18:31:50):

decide what my goal for this session will be

like "experiment with raising turns"

or w/e

review my mistakes from the last session

"wtf was I thinking shoving there?"

open up some tables

take a deep breath

and try to crush

 

GuitarmanUK says to  (18:32:46):

I am a 10/25NL player who plays 5 - 10k hands a week I am thinking of moving from Full Tilt to another site as I think without rush as an option the games will be even softer, but I will lose all the colour tags and stats I have on people which makes table selection so much easier. Worth switching?

verneer says (18:33:19):

try and see

it might be or it might not be

if the games are softer on the other site
or you get better bonuses

then it might be worth it in the long run

socialrunner says to  (18:34:12):

can you talk about how you review after a session? or what kinds of things you do on your own, away from the table to improve (besides watching videos). basically how do you analyze your own play?

verneer says (18:34:27):

I look at all the big pots I lost

look at my redline

and also

when I play

if there is a hand I want to look at again

I copy/past ie really quckly into my weaktight.com account

and then after the session I go back

and make notes on those hands

and then send a few to people that are better than me for feedback

 

reyzorxxx says to  (18:35:39):

What is your set up like? How many/Size Monitors? Customized computer?

verneer says (18:35:56):

check my Sept 3, 2010 blog post

it's very detailed about my setup

with pictures + specs

 

teamwillow says to  (18:36:12):

verneer - which trilogy is better: lord of the rings or star wars (original star wars, not those stupid new ones)

verneer says (18:36:22):

I loved star wars

wait

do you mean the movies or just general story?

like

original Star Wars movies vs. LOTR books?

verneer says (18:37:13):

cause if so

I've gotta go with LOTR

otherwise, probably Star Wars

Vader ---> biggest bad*** villain that I can think of

 

fanofhockey23 says to  (18:37:41):

thank you for you series in 2 + 2 on moving thru the micros in 2010

verneer says (18:37:47):

you're welcome

 

BLINKEYE1 says to  (18:38:08):

I've seen all kinds of numbers. What is a good or decent winrate for 50 nl? 100 nl? 200 nl?

6 max

verneer says (18:38:19):

depends on the # of tables

for 8+, 2 BB/100 is good

BLINKEYE1 says to  (18:38:42):

4

verneer says (18:38:52):

I would say 3 BB/100 is good

4+ BB/100 is very good

over a good 100K+ sample

 

BLINKEYE1 says to  (18:39:08):

And BB you mean big blind x2, right?

verneer says (18:39:15):

I mean the stuff you see on PTR

so yeah

I think PTR is the common standard as far as winrate discussions these days

 

BLINKEYE1 says to  (18:39:56):

K, thanks. winrate doesn't change as limit gets higher?

verneer says (18:40:07):

it does

not sure what to say about MSNL+ though

when you think bout it

even if your wirate drops by 50% when you move up

due to rakeback/bonuses, you are still better off playing higher

and you are learning a tougher game

so

Akolades says to  (18:41:40):

if you're not looking to play more then 200NL and you dont play much live, what are your long term poker goals?

verneer says (18:42:07):

to do exactly what I'm doing atm

live comfortably

answer to few

 

nomo4life says to  (18:42:45):

verneer - what numbers do you bet on in roulette :P

verneer says (18:42:54):

FU ALEX!

sigh

my wife made me play table games

and Alex (nomo) and his gf watched me just bleed money

 

Akolades says to  (18:43:18):

does the Mrs play poker?

verneer says (18:43:37):

she doesn't - she would suck

she would take things personally

and tilt

 

KidSoFunny says to  (18:44:02):

Verneer is it possible to beat the rake at 10nl on FT?

verneer says (18:44:18):

of course

check out adamwil's progress at 10NL

and 5NL

on his blog

he crushes

and when I did mt. micro I crushed it as well

so I have no doubt about it

 

SkinnyBrown says to  (18:45:15):

How many hours do you play a week on avg?

verneer says (18:45:37):

15-20 currently

caue I have a lot of other things going on

actually, this week it might be < 10

 

reyzorxxx says to  (18:46:04):

How do you balance family life and poker? I'm not sure if you have little ones yet.

verneer says (18:46:19):

I dont have little ones

and I don't think I balance all that well

 

KidSoFunny says to  (18:46:59):

I have a hard time not stacking off with TPTK when someone has a vpip of 40%+

verneer says (18:47:06):

me too

 

johnz8111 says to  (18:48:11):

wat are the best ways youve found to study the pokers?

verneer says (18:48:21):

find people that have a clue

and share HH's

also, think about spots in which you are lost

and look for common themes

like
2nd pair on a board after you c-bet and got called

PM people in the forums that you respect

and that play your limit

or just post saying "looking for someone that plays x limit regularly to disucss poker with"

 

reyzorxxx says to  (18:50:13):

I see that you're a marathoner... what's your daily running routine and how beneficial you think it helps your poker game?

verneer says (18:50:34):

I'm not training for one atm

but

right now I'm coaching a local HS cross country team

so I just run wit them

if I start trining in the winter

I'll proably run in the mornings

w/e I have scheduled for that day

I don't know if it helps with poker

when you run a lot, there is a lot of time to think

which could be good or bad

 

GuitarmanUK says to  (18:51:26):

I complete fairly wide in SB w/2 or more limpers, but have a hard time getting paid when I hit. Do you think figting for limped pots a bit more, or just tigtening up SB calling range? Also, what sort of a range would you reccomend in this situation? Thanks :)

verneer says (18:52:18):

22-66, weak broadways, suited connectors, some suited one gappers, suited aces < ATs

I would just look to hit usually

unless I have a great read

you got a good price

 

phatsuit says to  (18:52:40):

Do you get involved with any sports gambling?

verneer says (18:52:42):

nope

I would lose a lot of $$

cause  I don't follow enough sports

I'm not like lana who has 6 fantasy football teams

 

SkinnyBrown says to  (18:53:40):

What is your favorite hand?

verneer says (18:53:48):

aces

any suit will do

I win a lot with it

 

KidSoFunny says to  (18:54:26):

against micro 10nl or 25nl equal stacks, 30/30 players what line would you take with a flopped set on a wet board oop?

betting line for flop, turn ,river

verneer says (18:54:47):

30/30 playres?

I like to c/r flopped set on wet boards vs. loose players

caue I'm c/f a lot of those 679fd boards

with high cards

so when I check, they always bet

and I c/r

and they get confused I and win lots of money

like ... you check a wet and connected board

most players bet 90% of the time

and you c/r and build a pot

if they check behind

you are waaaaay ahead anyhow

so no big loss

 

SkinnyBrown says to  (18:57:34):

You watch any tv shows on a consistent basis?

verneer says (18:57:43):

daily show

every time there is a new one

colbert report 1/2 of the time

true blood cause I'm plot committed

how I met your mother has been funny

office for a while but not these days

dexter

criminal minds on netflix for a while

Real housewives of NY.  OMG DID YOU SEE WHAT THAT GIRL WAS WEARING?  WHAT A SKANK!

 

SkinnyBrown says to  (18:59:42):

When you first went pro did you run well or poorly and how did you handle the first couple months of the transition?

verneer says (18:59:52):

I ran well which is why I'm still here

I think that's usually the case with current pros

most do a "trial period"

so obv you need to do well otherwise you'll doubt your long term success

 

KidSoFunny says to  (19:00:55):

if you had whatever amount you thought was (extremely) comfortable to retire with would you quit playing cards?

verneer says (19:01:36):

no

I love poker

and I love helping other become good at poker

I would continue doing what I'm currently doing

 

reyzorxxx says to  (19:01:56):

Getting ready to watch your Destination series with MDoranD, how does his style differ from yours? What have you learned anything from him?

verneer says (19:02:19):

Matt doesn't like to fold

or to check/fold flops

I tend to do more of both

 

aisflat439 says to  (19:02:56):

in a typical 6max game do you think it's profitable to defend 55 and lower out of the blinds (100bbs single raiser)?

verneer says (19:03:13):

probalby not

vs. most

and most players would be better of sticking to taht

unless you have a fish min-raise
or are deep with fish and they raise

 

KidSoFunny says to  (19:03:57):

what range would you think of defending with?

verneer says (19:04:05):

what position do they open from?

 

KidSoFunny says to  (19:04:29):

button

verneer says (19:04:35):

vs. EP, 77+, AK, AQs, KQs, sometimes 3-bet JTs or 9Ts

vs. btn

if they fold a lot, 3-bet a lot

otherwise, AJ+, KQ, 66+ is a good blanket range

but, it's all about your opponent

vs. some, AT is the nuts there

vs. otherse, fold AJ

 

reyzorxxx says to  (19:05:38):

What is your 3betting range Out of the blinds vs TAG or LAG or Fish in late Position?

verneer says (19:05:51):

if they fold to 65%+ resteals

it's anything that looks good and is higher that a 6 and semi connected

79s, A9s, even A2s

TJs,

these are all as bluffs obf

and then for value

TT+, AQ+

 

JokerBlue says to  (19:08:02):

Could you recommend the best starter video series for a struggling 6max NL25 player that needs to learn to hand read?

verneer says (19:08:31):

blueprints by [vital]myth

then some of the stuff MDoranD and I do ... it's at your limit and he crushes

 

SkinnyBrown says to  (19:10:52):

Fav poker book?

verneer says (19:11:18):

Tommy Angelo's Elements of Poker

 

Akolades says to  (19:12:11):

what are some things that youve learned while working with mdoran

verneer says (19:13:00):

Have a sense of urgency when you have a fish at your table and be willing to play looser cause once that fish loses his stack, there is no more where that came from

Thanks guys!